Building Brands
The Building Brands podcast, hosted by Luminus Owner & CEO Tim Bouchard, is a biweekly show that dives into marketing and branding strategies relating to the building materials industry. If you’re an owner or marketer in the manufacturing, distribution, or contracting spaces, this podcast is for you. In each show I’ll dive into a wide variety of topics with industry experts in the building materials and marketing spaces. So whether you’re reinventing a well established company or introducing a new company or product line to the market, these conversations will allow you to draw inspiration from the experiences and knowledge of others who have been there before and succeeded.
Building Brands
An Architect’s Perspective on Building Materials Marketing
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Dane Danielson
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Season 1
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Episode 15
Dane Danielson, Director of Education at Gould Turner Group talks about architectural project processes, how research for building materials and building products is approached, and the various ways manufacturers can attract architects and designers and build a lasting relationship with them.
Tim
Welcome Building Brands Listeners. For our 15th episode, I'm joined by Dane Danielson, Director of Education at Gould Turner Group. Gould Turner Group is an architectural planning and interior design firm based in Nashville, Tennessee. Their team of architects and interior design professionals collaborate with clients all across the United States on projects that range from renovations and additions to campus master plans and new facilities. In this episode Dane talks about the architectural project process, how research for building materials and building products is approached. And the various ways manufacturers can attract architects and designers and build a lasting relationship with them. Enjoy the episode.
Tim
If you're an owner and marketer in the building materials, manufacturing, distribution or contracting spaces, looking to set up your brand for success now and in the future, this is the podcast for you. on this show, we talk about brand and market strategies used in the real world that grow companies and truly Knocking consumer audiences. So sit back listening and let's get to it. Okay, welcome Dane Danielson, Director of Education and project management at gold Turner group disclaimer, I've known Dane for almost 20 years, we went to University of Buffalo together. So it's really cool one that he is involved in an industry that I could have him on the podcast about. But to that he responded to my LinkedIn request. So I got one of my buddies on the podcast, so, so welcome, Dan. Why don't you introduce yourself to everyone and give us the starting point for where you came into being an architect in the architecture, industry and a little background on yourself?
Dane
Yeah, thanks, Tim. for having me. And, yeah, 20 years. That's a long time. Yeah, that's longer than most bands are even together. It's ridiculous.
Tim
We still look good, though. So we've got that going for us.
Dane
I mean, we're always gonna look good.
Dane
So my name is Dan Danielson and right now I live in music city Nashville, Tennessee and I work for Gould Turner Group. We're a national architecture firm that provides creative and thoughtful designs that empowers communities to thrive. goaltender group, we specialize in healthcare, K through 12, fire Ed, community projects like libraries. And a little bit more about me I'm, I'm the son of a construction worker. I was raised in a rust belt city of Erie, Pennsylvania, just about an hour and a half or so depending on how fast you drive from Buffalo. I'm a graduate of the University of Buffalo School of Architecture. The University of Pennsylvania School of Design, and I was able to study in London, England at the Architectural Association.
Tim
Remember when everyone could travel? Those were the days. That's right.
Dane
And also got to work in some really neat cities. worked in Chicago, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, where I live for 12 years, my hometown of Erie and also Nashville, Tennessee.
Tim
Cool. Talk a little bit about your role at the company and how you ended up. You know, obviously, you didn't just jump into this role at Google Turner to start so you've gone through a couple different evolutions of your, your professional career. What was that journey? Like? How did you get to where you're at now?
Dane
Well, the journey, it's, uh, it can be fairly circuitous. I always went where my interests were at that particular time. When I was really young, I was really motivated to get in the industry through my dad, being a contractor. You know, I'd see him come in from the weather, which Tim you know, really well. It's pretty harsh. Rust Belt, weather soaking wet, covered in snow, and I knew right then I didn't want to be a contractor. I just wasn't tough enough. So I needed to go to college. And architecture seemed like it was really the best fit. In my early childhood. My relatives taught me the value of sketching and drawing. Think of my first drawing was actually of our family dairy barn. Nice. And I really learned how to draw perspective at a young age of No, I think about three or at least that's what they tell me.
Tim
I mean, I remember back when I was a kid, too, they used to have I don't remember if it was the Chamber of Commerce in Batavia, which is close to Buffalo up here in western New York. We used to, they used to actually have architecture drawing contests for kids, you can go out and you'd sit in front of a building in town, maybe it's a historic one or just one that you liked as a kid and you draw it and then they would like judge him like a county fair or something like that, and give kids little ribbons for participating. But that I almost went into architecture. Because of that. I ended up a little bit more into like the creative side of art drawing, but I started perspective definitely helped, right? You're learning buildings with the angles and everything that gets you good to do backgrounds and stuff when you're drawing other stuff as a kid, but that was a little common thread that you and I had, but we have much different career paths.
Dane
So I felt at the time that there was no other field that blended artistry construction quite like architecture. Yeah. And I was fortunate early 2000s architecture program. See buffalo. That's really where my interest blossomed. The environment up was really strong. Maybe we're a little bit biased since we went there. But it had some really interesting things like wood metal shop program where you could build things with your hands, construction technology programs, architectural history. And more importantly, the professor's truly made you think about how to make a community better think when you look around Buffalo and it's been a little bit of time now since I've been able to visit. But you can really see the positive impact that the program's had on the community grain silos, some of the urban plans for buffalo. And there's a lot of really rich architectural history there as well.
Tim
Yeah, we've been doing a ton of rehab on old buildings and things because one, they're historical buildings so we can take them to the shells, they have really solid bones and we'll build them back up. But in the last I mean, a lot of the Rust Belt cities have been like this actually, for the last 20 years or so. A lot of the the cost of living is good up here. The professional companies are coming here for their corporate offices and it's a good way to add house into downtown cores is the rehab some of these buildings? Hmm.
Dane
So I think UB, it was a great foundation. It's sort of laid the academic path for other studies at University of Pennsylvania architectural Association. Both programs are really strong and digital fabrication, which is kind of a current trend, if you will. And theory, you know, and by theory, I mean, how do we make our world better? When we study a sighted beginning of our project? What sort of assets do we have? How can we use those constraints to benefit people's lives? What kind of transformation can architecture really create for our neighbors? At that time, Penn designs focus in my opinion was built upon ideals a Louis Kahn, he was a a and Reba gold metalware and considered one of America's foremost living architects at the time. Kahn was a master at we call digital fabrication, except to the 50s and 60s there was no computers, right? So he really had to deeply understand the role of the contractor and the architect So in it's really complex. He learned how to manipulate materials like brick and concrete without losing their materiality. And that's really important too, because you want a brick to look like a brick, you want it to function like a brick. It's a very robust material. Same thing goes with, with concrete, certain contractors know how to work with it really well. But when you try to do something innovative, like what Khan did, you have to know how everybody works together. And there's a lot of people in a project.
Tim
So you mentioned you guys work on like K through 12, buildings, libraries, a lot of those types of buildings, what types of buildings Do you guys specialized in that could kind of bring us into a little bit about your process to tell us a little bit about your end products, and then we'll work into how you approach the work that you do, including sourcing materials and working with companies to bring all that stuff together.
Dane
So our company is Gould Turner Group, we specialize, I would say in healthcare, and in K through 12 healthcare, we perform Primarily across the southeast, although we're licensed in 48 different states, each region has its own conditions, environmentally jurisdictionally required mentally, Texas is stringent Florida's very stringent with healthcare as well. And that's really one of the more interesting parts about this, this line of work in healthcare as it enables you to travel, usually, when there's no pandemic, and usually large scale, large scale, really complicated projects. So topics like speed to market are really important for a project, you know, how fast can you get this building done so that you can get people in those hospital beds and and start to take care of them.
Tim
And these are really, really functional buildings, too. So you guys are taking not only the consideration the look and design of the building, but how it's going to function for the client too.
Dane
Yeah, it's a real balance. I think healthcare sometimes is known for being maybe overly functional, but it doesn't always have to be that way. We've designed some really strong spaces that make the patient feel very well, I guess and sometimes even distract them. One project in particular is the Wesley Medical Center, Children's Hospital in, in Wichita, Kansas, there's little moments in the floor where it's kind of a squishy material. It's kind of an innovative, right. So you step on it, the fluid moves kind of like a lava lamp. But for that moment, it's so awesome just to be able to see the face, you know, a child who might be going in there with their parents, you know, totally scared doesn't understand the situation, the parents are really stressed, you know, but then to put a smile on their face, I think that's really the power of architecture. And that can really be done in healthcare, even though it's known for sometimes faster construction and more engineering type of features.
Tim
Yeah, I mean, that starts with the design too, and what you guys are doing so this is the building brands podcast. So we're talking about how manufacturers of products and materials can work with, with architects like you and and attract your interest and and Let's talk a little bit about the sequence of how you approach projects. You know, I'm sure this starts with research, but I'll let you be the one to talk about the sequence. So we can kind of go through what this process is to go from research to, to execution. And then we can talk a little bit more about what might help manufacturers work with architects even better to bring you into their space and bring your product into into your projects.
Dane
Well, sequences, you have to know Tim there's a lot of different sequences for different types of projects. There's a design bid build, which you're probably pretty familiar with. There's design build, where you're partnering with a contractor, and then there's some other variations of that called integrated project delivery. They all form some sort of partnering and sort of shared and roles and support. Some are suited for delivery cost, you know, others are suited more for innovation. The process when you begin a design project, there's there's pretty, I would say organized Rules generally speaking on how this phases out. And you might even deal with it somewhat in your work. But maybe you title it differently. You start with a schematic design, which is really the early research process where you're trying to really get the get the heart of what the project is why you're spending all this money and time and effort to do this building or renovate this space. You're starting to find some of the financials about you know, how this might sort of play out down the road for the owner and their budgets and schedule, design development, you start to refine a little bit more, you start to look at some details, you start to evaluate, hey, that product that I was thinking about, you know, before this project even began, can I use it in this project? And I don't know, does it meet the specifications? Is it durable, and you start asking yourself like these really tough questions and vetting all these different products. By the time you hit the construction document phase, you're in production mode, you sort of made a lot of your product decisions, and you're just thinking about how I can design them in the project and make sure that all these different assemblies and components can fit together in three dimensions.
Tim
Yeah. So you mentioned that some people are going a little bit for price and effectiveness. And some people are going a little bit for innovation and design. Is there one way that you normally lean in the research phase? Or do you legitimately know like, I've got to focus on these types of products and materials first, just because I know that's where the clients gonna go?
Dane
Well, I think, I think the challenge within architecture is that you have so many different groups that have competing interests. I mean, you have contractors who want to come in and they want to do a good job, don't get me wrong, but they want to finish it move on to the next project. Architects live with the liability for project for sometimes the lifetime of a building. Contractors live with the the liability for the period of the warranty, right. You've got owners who sometimes want it real fast. Sometimes they want it cheap. Sometimes they want to sell it after three years of occupying it. So there's so many competing interests, it really takes a lot of balance to figure out whose voice needs to be heard at sort of what moment you try to make the best decision you can with the information you have. Sometimes you make the right one, you know, sometimes you learn and move on.
Tim
Yeah. So when you guys are approaching this, and you're starting the project, and you're getting through all these phases, what what types of team members on your side from the architects firm are involved in some of these processes?
Dane
Well, I would say in a typical project, you're always gonna have your engineers involved. Mm hmm. You have, from a production point of view in your own office, there's, there's people who plug in at different times. So at the very early design, where a lot of strategy is involved, you want people that have sort of a higher leadership level, to be in there helping to facilitate those decisions, but you want them to also continue all the way through the process. In design, during CDs, you have more production, people that are involved. And when you get into the phase, it's called construction administration. Sometimes you have a dedicated person who just is involved with that particular phase, you know, for us, they like to travel across the country, the responsible, they know how to have relationship with the contractors, which is really important. And through all of that you have to maintain consistency. Right, and everybody has to understand what sort of the brand identity of this project is, it's really, really a challenge to do that. So, in the office, you might have standards, you know, you have periodic sort of kick the tires meetings, just to say, Hey, what's going on? In a normal work situation where you don't have a pandemic, you're meeting at a coffee, you know, the, the coffee area, through the hall bumping elbows sometimes go out for a drink, and that's really uh, yeah, people underestimate it, but it's really valuable for the design process.
Tim
Yeah, it's kind of funny how this architecture actually does align pretty closely with the creative stuff that we do. I mean, you're talking about brand identity for buildings like brand identity for companies is is a thing that what we will work on, you mentioned that leadership and senior roles come in and they kind of work through the project at varying degrees the entire time. Is there an owner of the project internally that sort of runs point as part of this collaborative team of people?
Dane
It's a really good question. I mean, ultimately, at the very end of the day, the firm leadership and the person who's stamping that project has all the liability for all the decisions that are made. So they're involved, but there's a lot of different layers that, that work to maintain sort of that shared vision.
Tim
So when you're starting this phase, and you're going out and you're looking for things to include in the project, what's your starting point? You just roll up to a computer or you go into a room full of stuff that you got to look through? Do you have magazines sitting around with? What's your starting point? Is it inspiration based or research, just straight up diving into research?
Dane
You know, I would say it's different for each each firm. There are some really visionary firms that it start with a lot of research you might spend A very large part of their time, you know, investigating what maybe the local materials are and say, like Minnesota for a project that's, you know, somewhere in Minnesota.
Tim
And that could be dictated by the client desires to because they feel like we got to go into this sort of mode because they want this type of building.
Dane
Right? It always has to, it always has to start with the client. Yeah. You know, I think when you start with a project, all all companies do a little bit differently. Some research oriented firms, maybe like studio gang in Chicago, they'll look at what the local materials are, you know, maybe what's even rooted in history of that region. And they'll try to bring that into the project. You know, anytime you're, you're looking towards innovation, though, the client really has to be on board with it, they have to understand what that means, and what sort of constraints are there and there really has to be a shared partnership. So what you know, one side can't lead the entire discussion. It really has to be a partnership. When it comes to how we research back in the day, it used to be A lot of books and publications. Still, you know, depending on the project, I'll go back to books. Yeah, Pinterest.
Tim
Isn't that crazy Pinterest, professional architect in their 40s and 50s diving on Pinterest for some inspiration. I like it. You're there. You got your shoes, your styles of shoes you're looking for, and you're building.
Dane
I mean, really? That's what my board looks like.
Tim
Yeah, so. So what do you when you're when you're diving into those channels and looking for things? Are you starting with like an innovative approach of value and durability approach or that design and aesthetic approach?
Dane
Well, I think when you start a project, you have to look at the assets and the constraints. That's really the only place to find true inspiration is a project. You know, the early design of the research, that's when the power is defined. From there, it's mostly a process of refinement. And same here in the creative fields. You know, the the research never really stops unfortunately, Even on vacations with my wife, who's also in the same field, will take more pictures of buildings that we do each other. It's awful.
Tim
I'm taking pictures and posters and stuff and yeah, I got it, I get you.
Dane
I found a lot of inspiration in areas outside of architecture. You know, when a, when I'm looking at maybe how to how to communicate something, I'm looking at the marketing, digital realm, right? Because we do have to think about it, we might have this great design, but if we can't communicate it, it does no good. So I'm borrowing inspiration from other fields. I'm also looking at magazines. We have a lot of vendors and product manufacturers that are consistently trying to reach out to us. Sometimes it's through email, you know, I'm gonna get 100 emails a day from different product vendors, and I've probably started blocking a lot of them now. If I want to find something, I usually want to be able to go out and go to a website and from The information for myself, gotcha. Sometimes people hold a lunch and learns. And those are also really valuable to the AI, which is the American Institute of Architects has really great resources for continuing ed and training and sort of knowledge sharing, will go there. You always have to be continually researching because the field adapts so quickly. For people I think they bounced out during the last recession, they found it really hard to come back in because things evolve so quickly. And I, you know, I don't really know of a an industry that changes as fast as, as with a building product industry does, whether it's with material sciences or supply chain challenges, how they communicate information through the web, and even how you access them. components. You know, five years ago, you didn't really do that.
Tim
Yeah. How many products are you looking for? For one application within your project? Are you are you pulling in multiple options are you Already dialing that in to a preferred choice before you start presenting outwardly, to the team or clients.
Dane
Well, time is very important. So usually you have products or you already have an established reputation with a rep and you trust them. They've sort of weathered the storm, right? Like, you've been installing them maybe for several years and you know that, that you can find the right information that they meet your specifications. Client likes them, and they also were, you know, really well, so you don't get a call back from the understand, hey, this curtain wall looks really good. But now it's leaking. Nobody wants that call.
Tim
So you have a little bit of a go to stable that, you know, you might already be pulling into some projects based on that the positive experiences you've had in the past to
Dane
Yeah, positive experiences is really important. When you're looking at a new product. You are you're trying to find a person to talk to still even though things are moving digital and email, you know, the Amur extension Whenever you still want to be able to pick up the phone and call someone and have someone who's knowledgeable at the end of the line, yeah, for some companies, they do it really, really well. But there are some companies that can see some improvement. And you don't really have a lot of time in a project to choose products. So the path of least resistance is sometimes really helpful,
Tim
knowledgeable and available, like you don't have time for someone of you trying to find the information for you when you're trying to work on sourcing a product. Absolutely, having those people on staff is going to help you do your job better, too. So let's talk about that you actually brought this up, which is important. You talked about BIM files and other resources that are being provided to you to help make your job easier, you know, everyone's talking about using BIM and Revit now that's pretty much where everything is moved right? Do you find that having access to that stuff, makes you lean one way or another to a product like if I can get this easily thrown into my my specs? That helps make it a contender for my project.
Dane
You'd probably expect me to say yes, but really no.
Tim
Okay,
Dane
You know, what we find often is that when you're trying to pick a light product, there's a lot of really similar chocolate lights, for instance, two by four, two by two, they all look pretty much the same. When you're designing construction documents, it's a graphic representation of whatever that light is, where you actually specify how it performs is in the specifications. So often, you know, we try to get the look as close as what the product that we're selecting as a basis of design is in the specs, but we can't always achieve it. So sometimes we'll download a different manufacturers like to put into our BIM model, because it's a better BIM model. But most of the time, they're not really built well to begin with, so we have to rebuild them so that we can look at them in 3d. Since we do a lot of our, our design in 3d. And we use VR programs and we do a lot of digital walkthroughs We're really advanced when it comes to 3d.
Tim
Very cool. I mean, VR is creeping into everything now. Yeah, we're sort of getting to the point now where you've done some research you have you pulled in your preferred vendors, you found some stuff that's inspired you through Pinterest along with ordering a new pair of shoes. You've got it SPECT in 3d in your in your specs and your project planning, you're moving it up the chain senior leadership is involved and on board with that the clients digging it. Now it gets to the point where you're starting to, I mean, you're doing orders and working with the contractors now at this point. So how, what is the typical timeline that you're working on here where you're going from that research phase, all the way up to ordering to get things moving?
Dane
Well, so the contractor is always responsible for the ordering portion of it, and sometimes it could be years. Hmm. So usually to initiate a K 12. Public project, a bond has to be secured and sometimes that's five or so years before the project even begins. Designed. You might go through a year, year and a half of design, depending on where the projects built. If it's in Philadelphia, you might have six months of permit time. You know, where you're negotiating with the agencies, and you're trying to get someone to look at your plans? To give you an answer on whether you can start to construct this building, kind of simultaneously, while that's going on, if a contractor is chosen, you'll get a lot of substitution requests. And that takes a lot of additional time from us. So we'll say we specified this particular product, right? We like it works really good. Well, the contractor has a different opinion. They're going to give you one product and a whole bunch of materials. And then you got to look through everything. Because the owner saying all the contracts are saying this products 20% less than the one that you specified. Well, we're saying does it work right? Does it meet the specs? You know, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. And that process is very time consuming. Sometimes it's very frustrating. Because you only get a portion of the information that you actually need to make a decision and there's a lot of calls back and forth with reps you know to really evaluate those particular products.
Tim
Yeah, I've got to get more contractors on this show. I need to learn some more about this going after architects saying you should use this product instead I need to learn more about
Dane
it happens all the time. Yeah.
Tim
You know you were touching on this before about you know, making sure this works and the product is good and durable and not and looks good. You know, you guys are dealing with budgets that are gigantic and making large orders for buildings because these you know, you're not just ordering like one light for one room you're ordering usually a set for the entire building, you know, whether it's like exterior materials or flooring that's usually going on every single floor to make sure that that durability, setting up those relationships with the people you're already doing business with, like that sort of good. Like you said, if you're going to be the lead architect at all firm and have your name associated with the, you know, quality of this building this oil potentially for the lifetime of the building. You got to start with the stuff that you're confident in. So surely
Dane
you wouldn't you wouldn't design a website based on an antiquated technology system right
Tim
Nope. So yep, same thing. So let's talk a little bit more high level. Let's talk about trends. I think trends will give manufacturers a little bit of an insight into what architects are looking for in the future. So what do you see coming in the next decade? From your perspective on what's happening and building right now? Maybe it's designed maybe it's economically or geographically something you might want to throw out there for us?
Dane
everybody's asking that question right now, in the last three, four weeks, especially after the pandemic, I've been talking with a lot of developers and building owners to really figure out you know, what they're thinking on how things are going to change, some because of the pandemic and some just because the economy evolving and change is just inevitable. But I think there's a lot of aspects of the building industry that are continue going to continue to stay solutions for speed to market. Huge labor optimization. That's big too. There's a lot of trends with that. I think we're going to see more robotics. Hmm. cuca manufacturing is a really great company that there's some really neat videos about, you know, how they sort of manufactured and built these really innovative products. quality construction is also difficult, like where they're sourcing people to actually put this stuff together. Right now, we know there's a huge shortage shortage with really quality trades, people. So trade schools have become less interesting, I think for kids.
Tim
Yeah, we did an episode about that. I'll put it in the show notes. When I find it so people can go listen to it.
Dane
product. durability is also gonna remain important how manufacturers organize your supply chains may evolve. You know, as you might know, with some of your your product conversations, there's a heck of a A lot of markups within a product. And there's probably a way in the next 10 years, I hope that that that's going to start to change, energy costs are going to rise again. And in the next 10 years right now, they're pretty low. But I think as costs go back up, people are going to start to reinvest into energy after optimization projects, 3d for us. I mean, that's always been huge. VR, that's really powerful. When you look at that VR, you don't have to understand the people that you're you're communicating with, it might be a nurse in the hospital, who really doesn't know how to read 2d drawings. But when you show them a 3d vision of what this patient space might look like, they get it. So that results in less changes down in construction because when you have changes in construction, it affects time, the schedule and the budget.
Tim
Yeah. Is there anything to really put a cherry on top that manufacturers can do leading into this? next phase to get more attention from, from architects maybe in the research phase, so that they can become some of your go to value and durability based partners in some of these projects.
Dane
What captures our interest right now is, is high performance buildings. And high performance means a lot of different things. It means, you know, how are they using maybe innovative materials. We're curious people, we really want to understand, you know, how things are evolving, and they're doing something differently. We also want to make sure that they're engineered properly, too. So just knowledge sharing is is really the best, best way to get in front of us to make it appealing. So it's got to look good.
Tim
Yeah. And you mentioned some of the AI stuff where these people are getting involved with their brands going through that organization, and some of the lunch and learns and having a lot of information even on their manufacturing processes to you because that could add to your confidence in the durability and value of the product. Is there anything in this conversation that I haven't asked you that you want to make sure you get out there that's that could be interesting for the audience before we wrap up.
Dane
So Tim, you asked how it How does the process welcome innovation. And it really comes down to two there's a lot of requirements for for innovation in material science, there's rigorous testing for for ul for fire, you know, asdm those are a couple names uh, maybe you'll recognize for sure innovation clients have to want it and they have to be willing to pay for it. For instance, for the National Farmers Market, we did a really cool project where we developed a custom design screen while to hide some equipment right. When you look at it first glance kind of really utility sort of design right high mechanical equipment, but we took it more than that. So the the screen will have a word search with produce names. So which made it really fun for adults and children when they come to visit the farmers market. It also had local flora like the state flower, which is the IRS, or its search was in English and English in Spanish. So it was really welcoming for for a lot of different cultures that are coming there to experience the international cuisine at the farmers market. welcome sign was translated into 16 different languages because the international focus the market, the design is a one of a kind. But to get that design to work, we had to meet with a fabricator, we had to work with them to come up on what's the most economical panel size that we can use. We had to work with them too, because the spacing of perforations if it's too close, it's going to melt that panel. Right? How many of these panels can their machine produce in a day? Right? Well, now you got to finish it. You want it to not be raw steel that that Russ, we just weren't going for that kind of look, well now has to go to a painter and that painter has to put a electro statically charged pulse through the panel so that the paint material attached to it well You know, does that work with that manufacturer? Do they have a base and it's big enough to accept this panel engineering? We had a tornado, as you might know, Nashville several months ago. So you know, when you design this thing, how can it? How can it withstand an event like a tornado with, you know, maybe 300 mile an hour winds. So it's really complex. When you start to look at innovation. There's a lot of people who are involved, you know, like I said, fabrication, contractor engineering, the construction of this had to be considered. So, you know, people don't understand that I think, as as architects, you're not the contractor, the contractor is there and they have a very specific responsibility to provide accurate construction budgets, that really doesn't happen from the architecture side. One One more thing that I know is in, in your, your world of thought, which is about a branding and you know, maybe how you develop a culture through a brand. Something is that I find attractive is you know, how Maybe websites use motion graphics on websites. And that becomes a little bit more interactive. So it doesn't feel like you're looking at a website through just 2d, you know, it kind of pops at you. And it makes you feel like you're in a space, right? Yeah, some product websites are starting to incorporate 3d widgets. So when you're looking at a product, you can get into that website and kind of look around and 360 degrees. That's kind of neat.
Tim
Yeah, we actually we do that with one of our hardwood clients, we have a 360 model of their board so you can see like the cut and joint and kind of move it around that way and see it from all angles, too.
Dane
Yeah, it's really, really fascinating. Quality photography think is great, you know, unfortunate. I think we have the word the instagrammable moment. But that that says about says a lot to us about how manufacturers really value their product. You know, if they're willing to find different ways to communicate the product. It shows to us You know, kind of in a subliminal way that they value this product?
Tim
Yeah, probably probably both from just the actual product photography and installation photography to
Dane
Absolutely, absolutely. And sometimes you want to see, you know, maybe how things are built some raw photographs, you know that they all capture our attention. I think it's really tough sometimes to that with the branding, you know, it's more than just a web interface, the challenges, you know, obviously having a consistent brand message from the top to the bottom, top being client interaction to the bottom being the documents and the media you use to actually execute a product or project.
Tim
Yeah, and you know, whether that's actually getting the product physically in your office or getting the right spec information document or download a BIM file or whatever it is, you know, those are, those are the two you know, you'll get drawn into the product, you'll find the one that you like, based on that intro information, and you'll go dig deeper for the technical stuff once you like it. Absolutely. Before we wrap up, why don't you let everyone know where they can find more about If they want to say, hey, I want to go learn more about Dane by then you can drop the info for the gold Turner group we get to?
Dane
Well, I think first off, we're always looking for clients that have a similar mindset.
Tim
You can invite your, your patrons, or what do you call people who listen to podcasts? Audience?
Tim
Audience. I'ts basically radio.
Dane
You can invite your audience to, to connect with me on LinkedIn. We also have a company website, go Turner group comm we can learn a little bit more about us and see some famous photographs, stuff that we've done, and how we've done it.
Tim
This has been very informative and fun. And I'm glad I could have one of my friends on who's very well qualified for the conversation. So thanks for taking some time with me. And yeah, that's it
Dane
Cool.
Tim
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Welcome Building Brands Listeners. For our 15th episode, I'm joined by Dane Danielson, Director of Education at Gould Turner Group. Gould Turner Group is an architectural planning and interior design firm based in Nashville, Tennessee. Their team of architects and interior design professionals collaborate with clients all across the United States on projects that range from renovations and additions to campus master plans and new facilities. In this episode Dane talks about the architectural project process, how research for building materials and building products is approached. And the various ways manufacturers can attract architects and designers and build a lasting relationship with them. Enjoy the episode.
Tim
If you're an owner and marketer in the building materials, manufacturing, distribution or contracting spaces, looking to set up your brand for success now and in the future, this is the podcast for you. on this show, we talk about brand and market strategies used in the real world that grow companies and truly Knocking consumer audiences. So sit back listening and let's get to it. Okay, welcome Dane Danielson, Director of Education and project management at gold Turner group disclaimer, I've known Dane for almost 20 years, we went to University of Buffalo together. So it's really cool one that he is involved in an industry that I could have him on the podcast about. But to that he responded to my LinkedIn request. So I got one of my buddies on the podcast, so, so welcome, Dan. Why don't you introduce yourself to everyone and give us the starting point for where you came into being an architect in the architecture, industry and a little background on yourself?
Dane
Yeah, thanks, Tim. for having me. And, yeah, 20 years. That's a long time. Yeah, that's longer than most bands are even together. It's ridiculous.
Tim
We still look good, though. So we've got that going for us.
Dane
I mean, we're always gonna look good.
Dane
So my name is Dan Danielson and right now I live in music city Nashville, Tennessee and I work for Gould Turner Group. We're a national architecture firm that provides creative and thoughtful designs that empowers communities to thrive. goaltender group, we specialize in healthcare, K through 12, fire Ed, community projects like libraries. And a little bit more about me I'm, I'm the son of a construction worker. I was raised in a rust belt city of Erie, Pennsylvania, just about an hour and a half or so depending on how fast you drive from Buffalo. I'm a graduate of the University of Buffalo School of Architecture. The University of Pennsylvania School of Design, and I was able to study in London, England at the Architectural Association.
Tim
Remember when everyone could travel? Those were the days. That's right.
Dane
And also got to work in some really neat cities. worked in Chicago, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, where I live for 12 years, my hometown of Erie and also Nashville, Tennessee.
Tim
Cool. Talk a little bit about your role at the company and how you ended up. You know, obviously, you didn't just jump into this role at Google Turner to start so you've gone through a couple different evolutions of your, your professional career. What was that journey? Like? How did you get to where you're at now?
Dane
Well, the journey, it's, uh, it can be fairly circuitous. I always went where my interests were at that particular time. When I was really young, I was really motivated to get in the industry through my dad, being a contractor. You know, I'd see him come in from the weather, which Tim you know, really well. It's pretty harsh. Rust Belt, weather soaking wet, covered in snow, and I knew right then I didn't want to be a contractor. I just wasn't tough enough. So I needed to go to college. And architecture seemed like it was really the best fit. In my early childhood. My relatives taught me the value of sketching and drawing. Think of my first drawing was actually of our family dairy barn. Nice. And I really learned how to draw perspective at a young age of No, I think about three or at least that's what they tell me.
Tim
I mean, I remember back when I was a kid, too, they used to have I don't remember if it was the Chamber of Commerce in Batavia, which is close to Buffalo up here in western New York. We used to, they used to actually have architecture drawing contests for kids, you can go out and you'd sit in front of a building in town, maybe it's a historic one or just one that you liked as a kid and you draw it and then they would like judge him like a county fair or something like that, and give kids little ribbons for participating. But that I almost went into architecture. Because of that. I ended up a little bit more into like the creative side of art drawing, but I started perspective definitely helped, right? You're learning buildings with the angles and everything that gets you good to do backgrounds and stuff when you're drawing other stuff as a kid, but that was a little common thread that you and I had, but we have much different career paths.
Dane
So I felt at the time that there was no other field that blended artistry construction quite like architecture. Yeah. And I was fortunate early 2000s architecture program. See buffalo. That's really where my interest blossomed. The environment up was really strong. Maybe we're a little bit biased since we went there. But it had some really interesting things like wood metal shop program where you could build things with your hands, construction technology programs, architectural history. And more importantly, the professor's truly made you think about how to make a community better think when you look around Buffalo and it's been a little bit of time now since I've been able to visit. But you can really see the positive impact that the program's had on the community grain silos, some of the urban plans for buffalo. And there's a lot of really rich architectural history there as well.
Tim
Yeah, we've been doing a ton of rehab on old buildings and things because one, they're historical buildings so we can take them to the shells, they have really solid bones and we'll build them back up. But in the last I mean, a lot of the Rust Belt cities have been like this actually, for the last 20 years or so. A lot of the the cost of living is good up here. The professional companies are coming here for their corporate offices and it's a good way to add house into downtown cores is the rehab some of these buildings? Hmm.
Dane
So I think UB, it was a great foundation. It's sort of laid the academic path for other studies at University of Pennsylvania architectural Association. Both programs are really strong and digital fabrication, which is kind of a current trend, if you will. And theory, you know, and by theory, I mean, how do we make our world better? When we study a sighted beginning of our project? What sort of assets do we have? How can we use those constraints to benefit people's lives? What kind of transformation can architecture really create for our neighbors? At that time, Penn designs focus in my opinion was built upon ideals a Louis Kahn, he was a a and Reba gold metalware and considered one of America's foremost living architects at the time. Kahn was a master at we call digital fabrication, except to the 50s and 60s there was no computers, right? So he really had to deeply understand the role of the contractor and the architect So in it's really complex. He learned how to manipulate materials like brick and concrete without losing their materiality. And that's really important too, because you want a brick to look like a brick, you want it to function like a brick. It's a very robust material. Same thing goes with, with concrete, certain contractors know how to work with it really well. But when you try to do something innovative, like what Khan did, you have to know how everybody works together. And there's a lot of people in a project.
Tim
So you mentioned you guys work on like K through 12, buildings, libraries, a lot of those types of buildings, what types of buildings Do you guys specialized in that could kind of bring us into a little bit about your process to tell us a little bit about your end products, and then we'll work into how you approach the work that you do, including sourcing materials and working with companies to bring all that stuff together.
Dane
So our company is Gould Turner Group, we specialize, I would say in healthcare, and in K through 12 healthcare, we perform Primarily across the southeast, although we're licensed in 48 different states, each region has its own conditions, environmentally jurisdictionally required mentally, Texas is stringent Florida's very stringent with healthcare as well. And that's really one of the more interesting parts about this, this line of work in healthcare as it enables you to travel, usually, when there's no pandemic, and usually large scale, large scale, really complicated projects. So topics like speed to market are really important for a project, you know, how fast can you get this building done so that you can get people in those hospital beds and and start to take care of them.
Tim
And these are really, really functional buildings, too. So you guys are taking not only the consideration the look and design of the building, but how it's going to function for the client too.
Dane
Yeah, it's a real balance. I think healthcare sometimes is known for being maybe overly functional, but it doesn't always have to be that way. We've designed some really strong spaces that make the patient feel very well, I guess and sometimes even distract them. One project in particular is the Wesley Medical Center, Children's Hospital in, in Wichita, Kansas, there's little moments in the floor where it's kind of a squishy material. It's kind of an innovative, right. So you step on it, the fluid moves kind of like a lava lamp. But for that moment, it's so awesome just to be able to see the face, you know, a child who might be going in there with their parents, you know, totally scared doesn't understand the situation, the parents are really stressed, you know, but then to put a smile on their face, I think that's really the power of architecture. And that can really be done in healthcare, even though it's known for sometimes faster construction and more engineering type of features.
Tim
Yeah, I mean, that starts with the design too, and what you guys are doing so this is the building brands podcast. So we're talking about how manufacturers of products and materials can work with, with architects like you and and attract your interest and and Let's talk a little bit about the sequence of how you approach projects. You know, I'm sure this starts with research, but I'll let you be the one to talk about the sequence. So we can kind of go through what this process is to go from research to, to execution. And then we can talk a little bit more about what might help manufacturers work with architects even better to bring you into their space and bring your product into into your projects.
Dane
Well, sequences, you have to know Tim there's a lot of different sequences for different types of projects. There's a design bid build, which you're probably pretty familiar with. There's design build, where you're partnering with a contractor, and then there's some other variations of that called integrated project delivery. They all form some sort of partnering and sort of shared and roles and support. Some are suited for delivery cost, you know, others are suited more for innovation. The process when you begin a design project, there's there's pretty, I would say organized Rules generally speaking on how this phases out. And you might even deal with it somewhat in your work. But maybe you title it differently. You start with a schematic design, which is really the early research process where you're trying to really get the get the heart of what the project is why you're spending all this money and time and effort to do this building or renovate this space. You're starting to find some of the financials about you know, how this might sort of play out down the road for the owner and their budgets and schedule, design development, you start to refine a little bit more, you start to look at some details, you start to evaluate, hey, that product that I was thinking about, you know, before this project even began, can I use it in this project? And I don't know, does it meet the specifications? Is it durable, and you start asking yourself like these really tough questions and vetting all these different products. By the time you hit the construction document phase, you're in production mode, you sort of made a lot of your product decisions, and you're just thinking about how I can design them in the project and make sure that all these different assemblies and components can fit together in three dimensions.
Tim
Yeah. So you mentioned that some people are going a little bit for price and effectiveness. And some people are going a little bit for innovation and design. Is there one way that you normally lean in the research phase? Or do you legitimately know like, I've got to focus on these types of products and materials first, just because I know that's where the clients gonna go?
Dane
Well, I think, I think the challenge within architecture is that you have so many different groups that have competing interests. I mean, you have contractors who want to come in and they want to do a good job, don't get me wrong, but they want to finish it move on to the next project. Architects live with the liability for project for sometimes the lifetime of a building. Contractors live with the the liability for the period of the warranty, right. You've got owners who sometimes want it real fast. Sometimes they want it cheap. Sometimes they want to sell it after three years of occupying it. So there's so many competing interests, it really takes a lot of balance to figure out whose voice needs to be heard at sort of what moment you try to make the best decision you can with the information you have. Sometimes you make the right one, you know, sometimes you learn and move on.
Tim
Yeah. So when you guys are approaching this, and you're starting the project, and you're getting through all these phases, what what types of team members on your side from the architects firm are involved in some of these processes?
Dane
Well, I would say in a typical project, you're always gonna have your engineers involved. Mm hmm. You have, from a production point of view in your own office, there's, there's people who plug in at different times. So at the very early design, where a lot of strategy is involved, you want people that have sort of a higher leadership level, to be in there helping to facilitate those decisions, but you want them to also continue all the way through the process. In design, during CDs, you have more production, people that are involved. And when you get into the phase, it's called construction administration. Sometimes you have a dedicated person who just is involved with that particular phase, you know, for us, they like to travel across the country, the responsible, they know how to have relationship with the contractors, which is really important. And through all of that you have to maintain consistency. Right, and everybody has to understand what sort of the brand identity of this project is, it's really, really a challenge to do that. So, in the office, you might have standards, you know, you have periodic sort of kick the tires meetings, just to say, Hey, what's going on? In a normal work situation where you don't have a pandemic, you're meeting at a coffee, you know, the, the coffee area, through the hall bumping elbows sometimes go out for a drink, and that's really uh, yeah, people underestimate it, but it's really valuable for the design process.
Tim
Yeah, it's kind of funny how this architecture actually does align pretty closely with the creative stuff that we do. I mean, you're talking about brand identity for buildings like brand identity for companies is is a thing that what we will work on, you mentioned that leadership and senior roles come in and they kind of work through the project at varying degrees the entire time. Is there an owner of the project internally that sort of runs point as part of this collaborative team of people?
Dane
It's a really good question. I mean, ultimately, at the very end of the day, the firm leadership and the person who's stamping that project has all the liability for all the decisions that are made. So they're involved, but there's a lot of different layers that, that work to maintain sort of that shared vision.
Tim
So when you're starting this phase, and you're going out and you're looking for things to include in the project, what's your starting point? You just roll up to a computer or you go into a room full of stuff that you got to look through? Do you have magazines sitting around with? What's your starting point? Is it inspiration based or research, just straight up diving into research?
Dane
You know, I would say it's different for each each firm. There are some really visionary firms that it start with a lot of research you might spend A very large part of their time, you know, investigating what maybe the local materials are and say, like Minnesota for a project that's, you know, somewhere in Minnesota.
Tim
And that could be dictated by the client desires to because they feel like we got to go into this sort of mode because they want this type of building.
Dane
Right? It always has to, it always has to start with the client. Yeah. You know, I think when you start with a project, all all companies do a little bit differently. Some research oriented firms, maybe like studio gang in Chicago, they'll look at what the local materials are, you know, maybe what's even rooted in history of that region. And they'll try to bring that into the project. You know, anytime you're, you're looking towards innovation, though, the client really has to be on board with it, they have to understand what that means, and what sort of constraints are there and there really has to be a shared partnership. So what you know, one side can't lead the entire discussion. It really has to be a partnership. When it comes to how we research back in the day, it used to be A lot of books and publications. Still, you know, depending on the project, I'll go back to books. Yeah, Pinterest.
Tim
Isn't that crazy Pinterest, professional architect in their 40s and 50s diving on Pinterest for some inspiration. I like it. You're there. You got your shoes, your styles of shoes you're looking for, and you're building.
Dane
I mean, really? That's what my board looks like.
Tim
Yeah, so. So what do you when you're when you're diving into those channels and looking for things? Are you starting with like an innovative approach of value and durability approach or that design and aesthetic approach?
Dane
Well, I think when you start a project, you have to look at the assets and the constraints. That's really the only place to find true inspiration is a project. You know, the early design of the research, that's when the power is defined. From there, it's mostly a process of refinement. And same here in the creative fields. You know, the the research never really stops unfortunately, Even on vacations with my wife, who's also in the same field, will take more pictures of buildings that we do each other. It's awful.
Tim
I'm taking pictures and posters and stuff and yeah, I got it, I get you.
Dane
I found a lot of inspiration in areas outside of architecture. You know, when a, when I'm looking at maybe how to how to communicate something, I'm looking at the marketing, digital realm, right? Because we do have to think about it, we might have this great design, but if we can't communicate it, it does no good. So I'm borrowing inspiration from other fields. I'm also looking at magazines. We have a lot of vendors and product manufacturers that are consistently trying to reach out to us. Sometimes it's through email, you know, I'm gonna get 100 emails a day from different product vendors, and I've probably started blocking a lot of them now. If I want to find something, I usually want to be able to go out and go to a website and from The information for myself, gotcha. Sometimes people hold a lunch and learns. And those are also really valuable to the AI, which is the American Institute of Architects has really great resources for continuing ed and training and sort of knowledge sharing, will go there. You always have to be continually researching because the field adapts so quickly. For people I think they bounced out during the last recession, they found it really hard to come back in because things evolve so quickly. And I, you know, I don't really know of a an industry that changes as fast as, as with a building product industry does, whether it's with material sciences or supply chain challenges, how they communicate information through the web, and even how you access them. components. You know, five years ago, you didn't really do that.
Tim
Yeah. How many products are you looking for? For one application within your project? Are you are you pulling in multiple options are you Already dialing that in to a preferred choice before you start presenting outwardly, to the team or clients.
Dane
Well, time is very important. So usually you have products or you already have an established reputation with a rep and you trust them. They've sort of weathered the storm, right? Like, you've been installing them maybe for several years and you know that, that you can find the right information that they meet your specifications. Client likes them, and they also were, you know, really well, so you don't get a call back from the understand, hey, this curtain wall looks really good. But now it's leaking. Nobody wants that call.
Tim
So you have a little bit of a go to stable that, you know, you might already be pulling into some projects based on that the positive experiences you've had in the past to
Dane
Yeah, positive experiences is really important. When you're looking at a new product. You are you're trying to find a person to talk to still even though things are moving digital and email, you know, the Amur extension Whenever you still want to be able to pick up the phone and call someone and have someone who's knowledgeable at the end of the line, yeah, for some companies, they do it really, really well. But there are some companies that can see some improvement. And you don't really have a lot of time in a project to choose products. So the path of least resistance is sometimes really helpful,
Tim
knowledgeable and available, like you don't have time for someone of you trying to find the information for you when you're trying to work on sourcing a product. Absolutely, having those people on staff is going to help you do your job better, too. So let's talk about that you actually brought this up, which is important. You talked about BIM files and other resources that are being provided to you to help make your job easier, you know, everyone's talking about using BIM and Revit now that's pretty much where everything is moved right? Do you find that having access to that stuff, makes you lean one way or another to a product like if I can get this easily thrown into my my specs? That helps make it a contender for my project.
Dane
You'd probably expect me to say yes, but really no.
Tim
Okay,
Dane
You know, what we find often is that when you're trying to pick a light product, there's a lot of really similar chocolate lights, for instance, two by four, two by two, they all look pretty much the same. When you're designing construction documents, it's a graphic representation of whatever that light is, where you actually specify how it performs is in the specifications. So often, you know, we try to get the look as close as what the product that we're selecting as a basis of design is in the specs, but we can't always achieve it. So sometimes we'll download a different manufacturers like to put into our BIM model, because it's a better BIM model. But most of the time, they're not really built well to begin with, so we have to rebuild them so that we can look at them in 3d. Since we do a lot of our, our design in 3d. And we use VR programs and we do a lot of digital walkthroughs We're really advanced when it comes to 3d.
Tim
Very cool. I mean, VR is creeping into everything now. Yeah, we're sort of getting to the point now where you've done some research you have you pulled in your preferred vendors, you found some stuff that's inspired you through Pinterest along with ordering a new pair of shoes. You've got it SPECT in 3d in your in your specs and your project planning, you're moving it up the chain senior leadership is involved and on board with that the clients digging it. Now it gets to the point where you're starting to, I mean, you're doing orders and working with the contractors now at this point. So how, what is the typical timeline that you're working on here where you're going from that research phase, all the way up to ordering to get things moving?
Dane
Well, so the contractor is always responsible for the ordering portion of it, and sometimes it could be years. Hmm. So usually to initiate a K 12. Public project, a bond has to be secured and sometimes that's five or so years before the project even begins. Designed. You might go through a year, year and a half of design, depending on where the projects built. If it's in Philadelphia, you might have six months of permit time. You know, where you're negotiating with the agencies, and you're trying to get someone to look at your plans? To give you an answer on whether you can start to construct this building, kind of simultaneously, while that's going on, if a contractor is chosen, you'll get a lot of substitution requests. And that takes a lot of additional time from us. So we'll say we specified this particular product, right? We like it works really good. Well, the contractor has a different opinion. They're going to give you one product and a whole bunch of materials. And then you got to look through everything. Because the owner saying all the contracts are saying this products 20% less than the one that you specified. Well, we're saying does it work right? Does it meet the specs? You know, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. And that process is very time consuming. Sometimes it's very frustrating. Because you only get a portion of the information that you actually need to make a decision and there's a lot of calls back and forth with reps you know to really evaluate those particular products.
Tim
Yeah, I've got to get more contractors on this show. I need to learn some more about this going after architects saying you should use this product instead I need to learn more about
Dane
it happens all the time. Yeah.
Tim
You know you were touching on this before about you know, making sure this works and the product is good and durable and not and looks good. You know, you guys are dealing with budgets that are gigantic and making large orders for buildings because these you know, you're not just ordering like one light for one room you're ordering usually a set for the entire building, you know, whether it's like exterior materials or flooring that's usually going on every single floor to make sure that that durability, setting up those relationships with the people you're already doing business with, like that sort of good. Like you said, if you're going to be the lead architect at all firm and have your name associated with the, you know, quality of this building this oil potentially for the lifetime of the building. You got to start with the stuff that you're confident in. So surely
Dane
you wouldn't you wouldn't design a website based on an antiquated technology system right
Tim
Nope. So yep, same thing. So let's talk a little bit more high level. Let's talk about trends. I think trends will give manufacturers a little bit of an insight into what architects are looking for in the future. So what do you see coming in the next decade? From your perspective on what's happening and building right now? Maybe it's designed maybe it's economically or geographically something you might want to throw out there for us?
Dane
everybody's asking that question right now, in the last three, four weeks, especially after the pandemic, I've been talking with a lot of developers and building owners to really figure out you know, what they're thinking on how things are going to change, some because of the pandemic and some just because the economy evolving and change is just inevitable. But I think there's a lot of aspects of the building industry that are continue going to continue to stay solutions for speed to market. Huge labor optimization. That's big too. There's a lot of trends with that. I think we're going to see more robotics. Hmm. cuca manufacturing is a really great company that there's some really neat videos about, you know, how they sort of manufactured and built these really innovative products. quality construction is also difficult, like where they're sourcing people to actually put this stuff together. Right now, we know there's a huge shortage shortage with really quality trades, people. So trade schools have become less interesting, I think for kids.
Tim
Yeah, we did an episode about that. I'll put it in the show notes. When I find it so people can go listen to it.
Dane
product. durability is also gonna remain important how manufacturers organize your supply chains may evolve. You know, as you might know, with some of your your product conversations, there's a heck of a A lot of markups within a product. And there's probably a way in the next 10 years, I hope that that that's going to start to change, energy costs are going to rise again. And in the next 10 years right now, they're pretty low. But I think as costs go back up, people are going to start to reinvest into energy after optimization projects, 3d for us. I mean, that's always been huge. VR, that's really powerful. When you look at that VR, you don't have to understand the people that you're you're communicating with, it might be a nurse in the hospital, who really doesn't know how to read 2d drawings. But when you show them a 3d vision of what this patient space might look like, they get it. So that results in less changes down in construction because when you have changes in construction, it affects time, the schedule and the budget.
Tim
Yeah. Is there anything to really put a cherry on top that manufacturers can do leading into this? next phase to get more attention from, from architects maybe in the research phase, so that they can become some of your go to value and durability based partners in some of these projects.
Dane
What captures our interest right now is, is high performance buildings. And high performance means a lot of different things. It means, you know, how are they using maybe innovative materials. We're curious people, we really want to understand, you know, how things are evolving, and they're doing something differently. We also want to make sure that they're engineered properly, too. So just knowledge sharing is is really the best, best way to get in front of us to make it appealing. So it's got to look good.
Tim
Yeah. And you mentioned some of the AI stuff where these people are getting involved with their brands going through that organization, and some of the lunch and learns and having a lot of information even on their manufacturing processes to you because that could add to your confidence in the durability and value of the product. Is there anything in this conversation that I haven't asked you that you want to make sure you get out there that's that could be interesting for the audience before we wrap up.
Dane
So Tim, you asked how it How does the process welcome innovation. And it really comes down to two there's a lot of requirements for for innovation in material science, there's rigorous testing for for ul for fire, you know, asdm those are a couple names uh, maybe you'll recognize for sure innovation clients have to want it and they have to be willing to pay for it. For instance, for the National Farmers Market, we did a really cool project where we developed a custom design screen while to hide some equipment right. When you look at it first glance kind of really utility sort of design right high mechanical equipment, but we took it more than that. So the the screen will have a word search with produce names. So which made it really fun for adults and children when they come to visit the farmers market. It also had local flora like the state flower, which is the IRS, or its search was in English and English in Spanish. So it was really welcoming for for a lot of different cultures that are coming there to experience the international cuisine at the farmers market. welcome sign was translated into 16 different languages because the international focus the market, the design is a one of a kind. But to get that design to work, we had to meet with a fabricator, we had to work with them to come up on what's the most economical panel size that we can use. We had to work with them too, because the spacing of perforations if it's too close, it's going to melt that panel. Right? How many of these panels can their machine produce in a day? Right? Well, now you got to finish it. You want it to not be raw steel that that Russ, we just weren't going for that kind of look, well now has to go to a painter and that painter has to put a electro statically charged pulse through the panel so that the paint material attached to it well You know, does that work with that manufacturer? Do they have a base and it's big enough to accept this panel engineering? We had a tornado, as you might know, Nashville several months ago. So you know, when you design this thing, how can it? How can it withstand an event like a tornado with, you know, maybe 300 mile an hour winds. So it's really complex. When you start to look at innovation. There's a lot of people who are involved, you know, like I said, fabrication, contractor engineering, the construction of this had to be considered. So, you know, people don't understand that I think, as as architects, you're not the contractor, the contractor is there and they have a very specific responsibility to provide accurate construction budgets, that really doesn't happen from the architecture side. One One more thing that I know is in, in your, your world of thought, which is about a branding and you know, maybe how you develop a culture through a brand. Something is that I find attractive is you know, how Maybe websites use motion graphics on websites. And that becomes a little bit more interactive. So it doesn't feel like you're looking at a website through just 2d, you know, it kind of pops at you. And it makes you feel like you're in a space, right? Yeah, some product websites are starting to incorporate 3d widgets. So when you're looking at a product, you can get into that website and kind of look around and 360 degrees. That's kind of neat.
Tim
Yeah, we actually we do that with one of our hardwood clients, we have a 360 model of their board so you can see like the cut and joint and kind of move it around that way and see it from all angles, too.
Dane
Yeah, it's really, really fascinating. Quality photography think is great, you know, unfortunate. I think we have the word the instagrammable moment. But that that says about says a lot to us about how manufacturers really value their product. You know, if they're willing to find different ways to communicate the product. It shows to us You know, kind of in a subliminal way that they value this product?
Tim
Yeah, probably probably both from just the actual product photography and installation photography to
Dane
Absolutely, absolutely. And sometimes you want to see, you know, maybe how things are built some raw photographs, you know that they all capture our attention. I think it's really tough sometimes to that with the branding, you know, it's more than just a web interface, the challenges, you know, obviously having a consistent brand message from the top to the bottom, top being client interaction to the bottom being the documents and the media you use to actually execute a product or project.
Tim
Yeah, and you know, whether that's actually getting the product physically in your office or getting the right spec information document or download a BIM file or whatever it is, you know, those are, those are the two you know, you'll get drawn into the product, you'll find the one that you like, based on that intro information, and you'll go dig deeper for the technical stuff once you like it. Absolutely. Before we wrap up, why don't you let everyone know where they can find more about If they want to say, hey, I want to go learn more about Dane by then you can drop the info for the gold Turner group we get to?
Dane
Well, I think first off, we're always looking for clients that have a similar mindset.
Tim
You can invite your, your patrons, or what do you call people who listen to podcasts? Audience?
Tim
Audience. I'ts basically radio.
Dane
You can invite your audience to, to connect with me on LinkedIn. We also have a company website, go Turner group comm we can learn a little bit more about us and see some famous photographs, stuff that we've done, and how we've done it.
Tim
This has been very informative and fun. And I'm glad I could have one of my friends on who's very well qualified for the conversation. So thanks for taking some time with me. And yeah, that's it
Dane
Cool.
Tim
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Transcribed by https://otter.ai